Суд над Бхагавад-гитой / Attempt to ban Bhagavad-gita

Discussions with Syamasundara dasa
Charles Darwin



Śyāmasundara: All they're doing is creating the conditions for the jīva to enter, actually. Isn't it?


Prabhupāda: Whatever their proposal, these things are already there. So even they can create something, xerox copy, what is the credit?


Śyāmasundara: But then they'll have control over it. That's their...


Prabhupāda: No, no control, because you are beginning from something on which you have no control. So where is your control?


Śyāmasundara: "From now on I am the master. I can create more Einsteins. I can create many Einsteins."


Prabhupāda: But first of all keep Einstein living. Why he is dying?


Śyāmasundara: That's on their program too.


Prabhupāda: That's on their program—that is is another foolish thing.


Śyāmasundara: Postponement of death by at least fifty years...


Prabhupāda: So what is the profit? After fifty years he has to die. Stop, stop death, then that is credit.


Śyāmasundara: They say they will be able to take out someone like Einstein's brain when his body dies and keep it alive, a disembodied brain, and use it like a computer.


Prabhupāda: All right. Whatever. (sounding disgusted) No. All rascals, fools. As if in the brain there is the thing. What is this brain? It is a material substance, what is there, lump of matter.


Śyāmasundara: Just like they can take a heart out of a living being and they put it in a machine and keep it alive and then they transplant it to some other person.


Prabhupāda: The same intelligence, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13], they're trying to find out life in this lump of matter. That is their defect.


Śyāmasundara: They'll spend so many billions of dollars, and years of work.


Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like computer machine. They do not find that the machine is made by a brain which is different from this material. But he's trying to find out a brain from this. This is their childish... The brain is different from machine. The machine is lump of iron. And the one who is working with the machine is a different from the machine. That they do not know. That they do not know. That is their defect. Now what is this computer machine will do unless there is a worker in the computer room, highly salaried man?


Śyāmasundara: Unless it's plugged into the wall it doesn't work.


Prabhupāda: Lump of matter, iron, that's all. But that they do not know. They are so foolish and rascal. Then they're trying to find out... This is same childishness, that "I'm trying to find out the singer within the box, within the box." It is like that.


Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the proposals that they made here (indistinct) very speculative type. It's just a projection that can be made by their own speculation.


Prabhupāda: That's all. It is simply mental speculation.


Śyāmasundara: They haven't even come near to these things yet.


Prabhupāda: They'll never come.


Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mostly scientists are digging up, trying to find out something when they get some very basic preliminary ideas, they speculate so much (indistinct) this, so on. In such and such time I'll be able to make such and such things. Every scientist does like that. Ultimately it is all, it is always...


Prabhupāda: Failure.


Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something on the way, something comes up.


Prabhupāda: Then there, it has changed. It has changed. The circumstances have changed.


Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) very, very delicate, the substances that they are handling, the cells of the the microorganisms. They are also subjected to different changes, without knowing anything. So, but they're taking that things are thus perfect, (indistinct) based on their perfect thinking, what they have learned is infallible. (indistinct)


Prabhupāda: Therefore our śāstra says these classes of men, no better than cows and asses. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cows and asses. We take them like go-kharaḥ, cows and asses. They may speculate, but we take them, "You are no better than asses and cows."


Śyāmasundara: They work very hard for a little morsel of grass.


Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right. Some fools will give them credit, and that credit is given by such class of men: dogs, hogs, camels and asses. No good men. Kṛṣṇa conscious men will never give them anything. But men like dogs, hogs, asses and camels will give them. Samstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ, this they are. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Saṁstutaḥ means eulogized. This class of men will be eulogized by whom? By dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. No Vyāsadeva will give them credit; no Nārada will give them credit; neither Kṛṣṇa will give them credit, nor followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give them credit. Because they have a criterion to know what kind of man he is. They have got śāstra, and from the śāstra it is understood one who is accepting this body as the self, he is no better than cow and ass. That is our culture. He has not still found out that the worker of the machine is different. This body is just like machine. May be composed of highly mechanical arrangement, electronic parts and this and that, so many things, but after all, it is a machine! And this machine must be worked by somebody. He must be living. He is not machine.


Śyāmasundara: They can't create a machine that will act like a human?


Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if it can act, still it has to be worked. Unless I push the buttons, you cannot work. That they are missing. Just like you say that computer machine is the same, or so many things, but as soon as you say that "I want this," immediately. But you have to push the button. This machine is working when I push this plug into the electricity.


Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like a computer cannot correct a mistake. They'll just give a message that it's wrong. That's all.


Śyāmasundara: No. They have correction. They have correction.


Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even they... But ultimately the mechanic (is) able to work on the computer machine.


Śyāmasundara: But what about this artificially changing bodies before they are born, before they are growing?


Prabhupāda: That is also same thing. Just like I change your shirt, what is that?


Śyāmasundara: But I mean, isn't that a demonic act?


Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later. Demonic it must be, but this change, this change can be possible.


Śyāmasundara: If by our karma we desire a certain type of body but they create all the bodies to be the same, how is that? But men are tampering with the bodies.


Prabhupāda: Let them create first, then say. Where is the man they are creating? It is simply theory.


Līlāvatī: That living entity would still have the same desire, that previous desire for that previous body, won't he? If some scientist can change the genes so that the jīva can have a different kind of body, he still would have the previous desires?


Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not possible. If his body... The word is daiva netreṇa: by superior arrangement. So how these rascals can be superior? They are not.


Atreya Ṛṣi: And also, Prabhupāda, in case, for example some scientist makes a change, like if the scientist comes and cuts off my hand, that's also my karma. In that way he's not making a change. Everything that is happening is God's plan.


Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no. Everything, even if it is not in my karma, I can cut, I become responsible for cutting.


Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, if somebody comes and cuts my hand...


Prabhupāda: Yes. He can do that. He creates his own karma.


Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. But how about my karma?


Prabhupāda: My karma is that such thing may happen. Your karma is that he'll also cut his hand, next life.


Atreya Ṛṣi: The fact that my hand got cut this life, wasn't this due to something I did before? (end)




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