Суд над Бхагавад-гитой / Attempt to ban Bhagavad-gita

APPENDIX TWELVE

"'BHAKTIPADA' WAS RIGHT THERE..."

Conversation with Mother Mahara, Sept. 1984

Mother Mahara was the largest collector at New Vrindaban for many years. She must have donated over half a million dollars in that time and so naturally she was dearly loved and respected by all-until she discovered what follows.

Mother Mahara: I was bewildered a long time about New Vrindaban. When I left it I had a hard tune not going back. I wanted to go back, but the devotees would preach to me. And I'm glad I didn't go back, because I'm so much more sane now than I as before.

Sulocana dasa: I heard you'd made a statement that they don't let you learn anything there-just out on the pick.

MM: All you do...all I did was went out on the pick. No sadhana hardly at all.

SD: Is that true Dharmatma has sex with most of the women?

MM: Yep, a lot of them. He told one little girl to have an abortion that he had sex with.

SD: Really?

MM: Yep.

SD: Do you know that for a fact?

MM: I know it for a fact.

SD: Wow!

MM: Bhaktipada was right there.

SD: He approved it?

MM: Yeah. That's why I went to the GBC.

SD: What has the GBC done-anything?

MM: Yeah, well, they're separating the women now from Dharmatma. But I don't think all the women know even, about that. I don't care anymore. You know. I just feel that Prabhupada protected me and I feel I'm luckier than them because now I know. Srila Ramesvara is into book distribution but there is not much book distribution going on at New Vmdavana. But there's a lot of great devotees there-l love Kutila-she's great. I learned a lot from what I did, I performed a lot of austerities and Krsna's rewarding me now with all this nectar. I know more now about what Krsna consciousness is all about. I go on book distribution and preaching.

Sept. 6, 1985

APPENDIX 18

INTERVIEW ON

THE SUBTLE SEX LIFE OF HRIDAYANANDA "SWAMI"

Introductory note by the devotee being interviewed:

Ever since ISKCON has entered the present era of "appointed paramahansas," I have been deeply aggrieved that for the first time in my devotional career, I have had to participate in a he. In my opinion, this has hurt our beloved ISKCON to the core. I suppose one of the motives in this "guru conspiracy" has been to keep ISKCON cohesive. But the perpetrators have failed to realize that only Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON's founder/acarya, can keep ISKCON united. The mundane plan of materially motivated men can never be the foundation for a solid, honest spiritual movement.

Anyway, I have allowed myself to be interviewed not to accuse a beloved Godbrother of mine, but to expose a false, injurious system which has destroyed countless spiritual lives and is quickly sending ISKCON to its demise. If I mention any faults in my Godbrother, I humbly beg his pardon and openly admit that I have many more faults to a much greater degree. But I have put myself on the line in order to be counted among those who strongly oppose the present system and want to see it replaced with something in line with Srila Prabhupada's books.

Sulocana dasa (SD): How long did you live in the Miami temple.

Anonymous Devotee (AD): Close to a year.

SD: And you were working for Hrdayananda.

AD: Yes. I was managing the book production for a while.

SD: When did you get married?

AD: 1983.

SD: Your wife is a disciple of Prabhupada?

AD: Yes.

SD: Was she married before?

AD: No.

SD: Where were you serving before you went to Miami?

AD: Philadelphia. I worked on Back to Godhead for three years.

SD: So while you were living in Miami were you and your wife getting along?

AD: Yes, we were basically pretty compatible.

SD: What is your relationship with Hrdayananda? Are you friendly with him?

AD: He and I have a long term friendship actually. During most of my Krsna conscious life I was working in his zone. I was always very close to him, like a close ally since we're good friends.

SD: So over the years, didn't you ever detect that he wasn't a pure devotee and shouldn't be worshipped like that?

AD: He's straight with me about his position. He has often intimated to me that it has been a struggle for him to maintain celibacy. Sometimes when he has preached very, very heavily against householder life, he would tell me that it was partly just to convince himself. To my knowledge-this is my opinion based upon my analysis of his character-l don't think that he has physically violated the principle of sannyasa. I trust him to that degree, although I know that he has had to struggle very, very hard.

SD: But he did have a young woman for a personal secretary that practically lived with him didn't he?

AD: Well, let's put it this way: He definitely showed signs that he had become attached to her. He got her married once, twice, thrice to different disciples. Finally on the third marriage I think she is in the care of her husband. I don't know the details of why the first two didn't work. This is probably the first time he's not involving her in his personal project. She is a little intelligent. She was a lawyer in Brazil and so she actually could render valuable help in his personal projects (like the philosophy book and so forth) so that meant a lot of personal contact. Of course, I haven't been there for a couple of years, but just based on what I hear, this is the first time that he's actually gotten her out from under him and she's not working on his project; she's apparently assisting her husband.

SD: So the rumors that she was massaging him are not necessarily true?

AD: I don't think so. I would say that his main difficulty was on the subtle platform. If I were to go before the Deity and say what I thought was going on, I'd say that I don't think there was any physical breaking of the principles but he was definitely becoming attached to her. The temple practically became a shambles over it. Because his disciples knew-but then they didn't know-so they blamed her or they blamed circumstances.

SD: What about the Godbrothers. Didn't they think that was kind of unusual?

AD: Definitely. When any householder Godbrothers went to him he would just say, "Well, it's just your wives. They're envious and they're influencing you. Don't be offensive like this." Finally what put a stop to it was when two respected Brahmacaris on his BBT staff, Dravida and Danevara, went to him and said, "This is bogus, it has got to stop." And so he basically came to terms with it and gave it up.

SD: He actually gave it up then?

AD: Yes. I think he came clean. He's been much happier since then.

SD: So Hrdayananda has always been a sort of passionate guy. His lectures are often full of graphic descriptions of sex life. So that obviously has been a problem in his mind.

AD: Yeah. His lectures in Miami were almost exclusively about vagina, husband and wife, and sex and sex, sex, sex.... Prabhupada would speak about these things occasionally but Hrdayananda was always speaking about them, so it was obvious to me anyway, as a Godbrother and as a friend of his, that he was struggling himself. So, no, I've never been under the illusion that he's a paramahamsa and he's never really tried to play paramahamsa with me, although he does demand a lot of respect.